Venerable Old Master Xu Yun [虚云]: No Difference Between a Monk and a Lay-Person! (14.10.2023)

For instance, by cross-referencing the below May 1955 Dharma-Talk with the text of ‘Empty Cloud’ for that year – a more all-round picture can be built of exactly what was happening and how Master Xu Yun was reacting to it. To be clear, Master Xu Yun was adamant that an ordained Buddhist monastic must follow ALL the rules of the Vinaya Discipline and that a lay-person must follow a least five, eight or ten of the basic vows contained in the Vinaya Discipline. This is a practical distinction Master Xu Yun upheld – as he rejected the Japanese Zen tradition of monks being allowed to eat meat, drink alcohol and get married. Such individuals are ‘lay-people’ and NOT monks. This being the case, what is Master Xu Yun referring to when he states that there is ‘no difference’ between the ordained Sangha and the laity?

The Zen of No Ch’an

Needless to say, the traditional Chinese Ch’an Buddhist – Master Xu Yun – had no formal or informal ties or connections to Japanese Zen Buddhism, and never practised (or advocated others to practice) a Japanese Zen that does not follow the Vinaya Disciple, and which deviates from established Ch’an practice.